So sorry to hear about your back injury, but glad you are on the rebound now. We have missed you!
The so-called mainstream media are giving Trump's lies much more credibility than they deserve and are downplaying Biden's accomplishments. WHY? Is it because they hope to see Trump elected in November because bad news far outsells positive news? Is it sensationalism they seek? Whatever their reason, they are endangering the future of this nation and while I have long been a supporter of a free press, in return I expect them to have integrity. Today, I don't think they have much, particularly the New York Times. And the ignorance of so many of the people in this country astounds and disappoints me ... I really thought we were better than this.
Jill, it’s good to be back. There were so many times that I wanted to write but either the pain or the academic overload kept me from doing so. I agree that the press needs to do its job and have integrity, but to do that they have to stop treating this Presidential campaign as normal and call out Trump on his lies. To give a voice to his lies legitimizes them.
Thanks for solving the mystery of whatever happened to Steven Dundas. I look forward to your recovery and your auspicious posts which demand scrupulous attention.
First, while it's not as relevant to Holocaust denial in particular, it's also important to keep in mind a fourth kind of statement: bullshit, in the Frankfurtian sense. That is, statements that, rather than having some shade of truthfulness or lack thereof or some kind of subjectivity to them, simply have no relationship with reality. David Barton's obsession with lionizing Thomas Jefferson (and the broader American reactionary project of founder-worship) is a good example, I think. While the actors in question will happily tell lies in support of these narratives, the narrative itself doesn't have quite the same feel as a lie, at least to me. Rather than being a construct created with the intent of concealing some truth, this kind of mythologizing is often viewed as an end in itself, and any "fact of the matter" *must* be distorted to match the target perception. You can't put together a set of evidence, real or hypothetical, that would cause Barton to believe that Jefferson was a bigoted, hypocritical rapist; because Jefferson is a major figure in the founding of the USA, he is by definition a paragon of virtue, and all evidence of his actual personhood will distort to fit that frame.
Second: the importance of the *religious* character of the speech you describe is something that immediately jumped out at me. Obviously it's something that worked out in your favor in this case (as in the cases of the various Jehovah's Witnesses who created much of the backbone of our modern free speech doctrines), but there are many cases and rights where it doesn't, or where it is only now, and only tentatively, that the special status of beliefs that can be characterized as "religious" is being wielded to expand, rather than to diminish, individual freedoms. Witness a few cases of Jews and others claiming, for example, a religious right to receive abortion care. The definitely real but difficult to describe misalignment between what we mean by "freedom of conscience" as a civic ideal and "freedom of religion" as a legal matter is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I find I can't really take it to any sort of conclusion because I don't have confidence in what "religion" means to religious people, in a very literal, dictionary definition sort of sense. Related to this, since it sounds like you've got some experience with the Chaplain Corps, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the atheist chaplain issue specifically.
Thank you for responding. Since MAGA Mike worships at the altar of Barton so your comment about him is important. Barton’s book on Jefferson was so inaccurate and full of bullshit that the publisher stopped publishing it. Barton is a serial liar when it comes to writing history and MAGA Mike learned everything he knows and believes about American history from him.
Traditionally the freedom of religion as discussed in the First Amendment meant the freedom to believe and worship as one pleased without persecution. Today under the Christian supremacists that MAGA Mike represents it has come to mean the establishment of their particular sect of evangelical Christianity as privileged above all others, including using it to write laws that help them persecute others who don’t subscribe to their beliefs. It’s what they call the “Seven Mountains” theology in which they believe that it is God’s plan for Christians to have control of every vital aspect of life. These people have sacrificed any semblance of a traditional American understanding of the First Amendment and twisted it to mean, without any historical fact, that the founders intended to establish a Christian theocracy.
As far as Atheist Chaplains, I really don’t know how that would work, unless Atheists are willing to call themselves a religion and follow the procedures for becoming a recognized faith with an endorsing agent to represent them to the military or other federal chaplain programs. Chaplains are not free agents and no chaplain is recognized without having an endorser from a group sponsor them, as nearly 200 religious organizations have done. We have Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist and other faith groups represented. Those that aren’t are typically those whose faith traditions don’t recognize chaplain service or don’t provide the necessary endorsement or education requirements. Chaplains need to be able to provide religious services according to their faith tradition, and facilitate the religious needs of others who don’t. To my knowledge no Atheist group has attempted this, though I am sure that some Atheists could serve as chaplains, but they might have to compromise their beliefs to do so. However, yours is a good question and truthfully I would trust a honest Atheist than some Christian fundamentalist Chaplains in caring for service members.
So sorry to hear about your back injury, but glad you are on the rebound now. We have missed you!
The so-called mainstream media are giving Trump's lies much more credibility than they deserve and are downplaying Biden's accomplishments. WHY? Is it because they hope to see Trump elected in November because bad news far outsells positive news? Is it sensationalism they seek? Whatever their reason, they are endangering the future of this nation and while I have long been a supporter of a free press, in return I expect them to have integrity. Today, I don't think they have much, particularly the New York Times. And the ignorance of so many of the people in this country astounds and disappoints me ... I really thought we were better than this.
Good to see you again, Padre!
Jill, it’s good to be back. There were so many times that I wanted to write but either the pain or the academic overload kept me from doing so. I agree that the press needs to do its job and have integrity, but to do that they have to stop treating this Presidential campaign as normal and call out Trump on his lies. To give a voice to his lies legitimizes them.
Thanks for solving the mystery of whatever happened to Steven Dundas. I look forward to your recovery and your auspicious posts which demand scrupulous attention.
Thank you Babette. It’s good to be feeling better.
Two points:
First, while it's not as relevant to Holocaust denial in particular, it's also important to keep in mind a fourth kind of statement: bullshit, in the Frankfurtian sense. That is, statements that, rather than having some shade of truthfulness or lack thereof or some kind of subjectivity to them, simply have no relationship with reality. David Barton's obsession with lionizing Thomas Jefferson (and the broader American reactionary project of founder-worship) is a good example, I think. While the actors in question will happily tell lies in support of these narratives, the narrative itself doesn't have quite the same feel as a lie, at least to me. Rather than being a construct created with the intent of concealing some truth, this kind of mythologizing is often viewed as an end in itself, and any "fact of the matter" *must* be distorted to match the target perception. You can't put together a set of evidence, real or hypothetical, that would cause Barton to believe that Jefferson was a bigoted, hypocritical rapist; because Jefferson is a major figure in the founding of the USA, he is by definition a paragon of virtue, and all evidence of his actual personhood will distort to fit that frame.
Second: the importance of the *religious* character of the speech you describe is something that immediately jumped out at me. Obviously it's something that worked out in your favor in this case (as in the cases of the various Jehovah's Witnesses who created much of the backbone of our modern free speech doctrines), but there are many cases and rights where it doesn't, or where it is only now, and only tentatively, that the special status of beliefs that can be characterized as "religious" is being wielded to expand, rather than to diminish, individual freedoms. Witness a few cases of Jews and others claiming, for example, a religious right to receive abortion care. The definitely real but difficult to describe misalignment between what we mean by "freedom of conscience" as a civic ideal and "freedom of religion" as a legal matter is something I've been thinking about for a while, but I find I can't really take it to any sort of conclusion because I don't have confidence in what "religion" means to religious people, in a very literal, dictionary definition sort of sense. Related to this, since it sounds like you've got some experience with the Chaplain Corps, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the atheist chaplain issue specifically.
In any case, it's good to have you back.
Thank you for responding. Since MAGA Mike worships at the altar of Barton so your comment about him is important. Barton’s book on Jefferson was so inaccurate and full of bullshit that the publisher stopped publishing it. Barton is a serial liar when it comes to writing history and MAGA Mike learned everything he knows and believes about American history from him.
Traditionally the freedom of religion as discussed in the First Amendment meant the freedom to believe and worship as one pleased without persecution. Today under the Christian supremacists that MAGA Mike represents it has come to mean the establishment of their particular sect of evangelical Christianity as privileged above all others, including using it to write laws that help them persecute others who don’t subscribe to their beliefs. It’s what they call the “Seven Mountains” theology in which they believe that it is God’s plan for Christians to have control of every vital aspect of life. These people have sacrificed any semblance of a traditional American understanding of the First Amendment and twisted it to mean, without any historical fact, that the founders intended to establish a Christian theocracy.
As far as Atheist Chaplains, I really don’t know how that would work, unless Atheists are willing to call themselves a religion and follow the procedures for becoming a recognized faith with an endorsing agent to represent them to the military or other federal chaplain programs. Chaplains are not free agents and no chaplain is recognized without having an endorser from a group sponsor them, as nearly 200 religious organizations have done. We have Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist and other faith groups represented. Those that aren’t are typically those whose faith traditions don’t recognize chaplain service or don’t provide the necessary endorsement or education requirements. Chaplains need to be able to provide religious services according to their faith tradition, and facilitate the religious needs of others who don’t. To my knowledge no Atheist group has attempted this, though I am sure that some Atheists could serve as chaplains, but they might have to compromise their beliefs to do so. However, yours is a good question and truthfully I would trust a honest Atheist than some Christian fundamentalist Chaplains in caring for service members.
Thank you again.